Hello, I'm new to the GN Board and one of the owners of ADFX Racing which can be seen at www.adfxracing.com . We are looking to make some parts for the GN's here shortly, we have a Hot Air car coming in next week and we are going to put a custom IC on it, just trying to see if anyone is interested in kits in the $700 to $800 range if we could offer it at that. The IC we have sized is approx 8x23x3" this is slightly larger than the other kit out there, however we feel this is whats needed to make adequete cooling, we only use aluminum piping and bead rolled ends. Any feedback would be appreciated, as to this and any other parts you may want to see for this car. We offer quite a bit of fabrication services and would love to see what you guys are interested in. Post here or e-mail me at lateef@adfxracing.com
Thanks
Lateef
I think you would have to tell me what kind of HP I can expect to gain first and then I would decide if it's worth it. Post the dyno numbers on your website to attract customers to your product.
Steven,
Thanks for the advice, I will try to get some numbers up soon for everyone.
Lateef
It sounds like a great idea. I own an '84 T-Type and an '85 GN. I'm really curious about the performance improvement with the IC. Please keep us up to date.
George
I'm interested too but also skeptical. Intercooling is good but I've heard that retrofitting it onto an '84 or '85, with all the long pipes, introduces boost lag. Will your kit use the stock turbo/intake combo? As far as other fab work goes, seems like someone is always looking for good exhaust and air inlet components. (i.e., down/up/cross-over pipes, manifolds, air intake tubing, etc.) There's already a fair amount of competition in that area though.
Nick
Nick thanks for the ideas, we got the car here, and it looks pretty nice, we are starting on it now and should have it up in a few days (first one always takes more time). As far as the piping size and distance that is mentioned above I have to say you need to look at a few things, first is intake temp now, versus later, second is boost pressure now and after (actual loss).
See we know we are going to lose some pressure, but we need to justify it in the air temp area, as far as lag, minimal piping must be used and the least amount pressure loss possible and we should get a substantial gain in power. We will try to provide as many numbers as possible.
Thanks Again
Lateef
Does anyone see a reason I cannot relocate the throttle body after the turbo, don't worry about the physical reasons (size, flanges, locations, etc.) just the reasons realted to the ecu???
I may relocate the TB to give the car better response after all the IC plumbing, I think that the reason alot of these cars feel less responsive after an IC install is since the TB is like 10ft away from the intake since the throttle plate is located before and the tps reads instant. So you are basically on one fuel map, and a different amount of air than normal. This is probably a big problem at idle i'm assuming.
Anyone here have an IC currently and can tell us there experience before and after??? I'm trying to pick everyones brain and get the best set up possible for you guys so any information is appreciated.
Thanks
Lateef
PS . Hit me at lateef@adfxracing.com if you want.
The spearco front mount was on my car when I got it! So I could not tell you the difference between intercooled or not. But, these hot air push roughly 200 horses stock. My buddy is pushing near 300 horses in his 94 stang with the 302. And he can hardly keep up with me when we hit the freeway. And his car is probably a little lighter. I was running around 15lbs. of boost on 93 octane through the spearco.....kenne bell exhaust,k&n cone, postons thumbwheel chip, so not to much other stuff and I was kick him around. I think a intercooler on these cars are a great improvment! But you can go fast without one too. Port the intake and heads!
I am in the middle of putting on a V2 intake and intercooler.....this kit is very rare and not being produced anymore....but it relocates the throttle body and the intake flow twice as good as the stocker. The intercooler is a modified stock 86/87. I am also throwing on 40# injectors and a TA49........expecting some good horsepower numbers with my new setup........
These cars really come alive with a intercooler....
I think if a company could find a way to reproduce these V2 intake and intercooler kits they would have a lot of orders on their hands and these hot air cars would be badder then the intercooled cars......just my .02 cents.
You can check pictures of my spearco and V2 intake kit here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/1quick6
Nick
Nick,
Hey thanks for the photos, they're a big help, I didn't see the V2 intake, who made this? What year cars did it work on and what alterations need to be made to run it?
Thanks
Lateef
Alright, we are well under way finally, our design will relocate the throttle body after the turbo, this should improve response, performance, and turbo life. Also the biggest feature of this is it will allow you to run some of the larger turbo's this vehicle may get a PT51.
Lateef
Lateef, this is getting better by the day! I might even get some real power out of my hot airs! George
Oh boy! I have an 84 that is just about finished with paint and bodywork. Now, it just needs to be a little bit quicker - like my 87.
Saw that V2 intake and I thought that could be a step in the right direction.
How are you guys going to relocate the throttle body.........just going to pipe in into one the intercooler pipes....intake change?......this is getting quite interesting..........I would love to see some more hot air running turbo's as big as the 86/87's......I added more pic to my link that is above if anyone is interested,in pics of my V2 kit......Nick
Wow, I like this board, actual feedback is good. The way I am looking to relocate the tb is to move it into the return IC pipe near the rear of the car, it should retain all it's cables and such. Hopefully before weeks end we will have a pic of the pre-production kit up.
L.
Interesting......so the trottle body would be right were it is just slide back a few inches toward the firewall so the MAF/air intake pipe could hook right up to the turbo? This will be a front mount intercooler? Keep us posted....I wont need one, but still like to see products thought up for our hot air cars..thanks Nick
I was wondering about the IC location too. I worry that a front-mount will hurt the cooling ability of the stock radiator. My '84 Regal's engine is in pieces right now but if this new IC set up has few downsides, I will seriously consider buying the kit. (if you produce it...)
Nick
Alright, I've been busy for a while now, but finally get a chance to post about the kit, we did relocate the TB to after the turbo, and we also built an air intake pipe to drop the air filter down in front of the wheel well. The car was outfitted with a PTE 52 and our FMIC and really woke up, we could not keep the tires from smoking, the owner was very pleased, and the car seems to drive very well, no overheating problems or anything of the like. Our website should have new pics up soon of the kit, www.adfxracing.com.
Great stuff! I can't wait to see photos of the installation...and prices as well.
George
I've been running an intercooled hotair car with relocated throttlebody for 3 years now. I had the Spearco kit on for the first 4 years with severe drivability problems, lack of throttle response, hunting for idle, and stalling made even worse when I went a TA62 and then a TA64 turbo. I figured it was just what you said, the computer sees TPS changes instantly while it takes the air a while to get to the motor. This is also bad at idle when the IAC overcompensates due to the lag in airflow and the car hunts up and down until it stalls. I relocated the throttlebody to the back of the intake by cutting out a section of the plumbing and having it coupled straight to the elbow on the back of the manifold.
Spoolup was nearly twice as fast, throttle response instant, no more hunting for idle, and surprisingly more power (you can push more air than suck). It was a bigger difference than I ever imagined and made the car behave more like the 86-87 cars. With the old TA49, I actually had a problem of it wanting to build full boost at a little over 1/4 pedal. The only other thing I would recommend with the kit is a BOV since there's a lot of pluming and a lot of air built up inside.
As for the plumbing making more lag, that's just not true. I now have the Ford intercooler with 3" piping and a ton of it with no extra lag compared to being non intercooled.
With the TB relocated, the selection of off the shelf turbos greatly increases and things made for the intercooled cars like alcohol injection will work without an extra solenoid. I'd be glad to answer any questions.
I forgot to add, as far as power goes, I don't have any dyno numbers but I do know my car ran 1mph quicker than my dad's similarly modded hotair minus intercooler with 7PSI LESS BOOST! It does make a huge difference.
I do have an 84 T-Type with the Spearco front mount intercooler kit on it. Before i had it on there the car had better throttle response because of the turbo being located factory and the TB just inches from the intake. I would like to have that throttle response once again but still have the intercooler on there. What parts would i need to use for changing the TB to the intake pipe on the intercooler? Would like to try that. Would it change anything different for what the computer will read? Would like to have specs on how to change the setup for TB after the turbo. Sounds like it does work very well and am willing to try it sometime to see the difference. Also is there anything else i would need to change for it to work correctly. Thanks for the input.
I am very interested in what you are doing. Glad to see someone taking some interest in the good ole hotairs! I myself was going to tackle the custom I/C but not anytime soon. I would like to see some pics of your setup(they are not on the website) I would also like to be one of the "guinea pigs" if you are looking for people to test it out. please email me at fireberd350@comcast.net
if you want you can check my car out at http://www.geocities.com/fireberd350
Later., Steve
any updates on this? i want to see it!
Sorry, been really busy at the shop, no dyno numbers yet, (if it were my car this would've been done already) just can tell you we drive the car with the PTE 52, and boost 16-17psi no problem no detonation and it hauls ...
Here are some pics, I will try to get more up soon
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/adfxracing@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/GN
looks interesting! keep us informed, Steve
http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/adfxracing@sbcglobal.net/lst?.dir=/GN&.view=t
Just in case the last one didn't work.
Lateef
Wow, i'm just now reading this because i've been hunting the reason why my intercooed 85 has idle problems. I've tried everything but relocating the tb. My 85 has been rebuilt- Comp Cam, TRW Racing pistons, Port and Polished intake and heads, Headers, Spearco Intercooler, 36 lb injectors, and much more. Car runs great but has idle problems.. I'm going to relocate the tb and will let everyone know
hi i have a 84 regal and i bought a 85 gn engine for it. i have also go a ic from a ford power stroke, it is the biggest ic i have seen. i am trying to build the engine up to run about 12' as a daily driver. i go a 3.73 posi and a rebuilt trans with a shift kit and a 1800 stall, i have a chance to buy a 86-87 intake manifold for about $100. will i be able to put it on my engine and what will i have to do to make it work ? and if i go ic will i need a bigger turbo?
thanks
Hey Mike, You're going to need the 86-87 style turbo, headers and plumbing to go along with the intake. The turbo mounts on the pass side header in front of the motor on the 86-87 style setup. You'll also need the throttle body, sensors, ingnition module, coil, etc. to make it work, as well as the 86-87 ECM and wiring. The 1800 stall converter you have is also not going to work. The stock TR converter was 2400 or so. And yes, to get a 12 sec daily driver ( I assume on pump gas) you will need a bigger turbo, injectors and fuel pump. Your best bet would be to find a donor car, maybe a 86-87 with a blown motor, or better yet, get one with a good motor and sell the 85 mill. The 3:73 is a little steep for the TR motor, but not terribly so. Make sure you run 28" tall tires. The stock gear ratio was 3:42.
Fast Freddie
Fast Freddie thanks for the info.
i'll just forget about doing the manifold change then.
and i'm sorry i mean 2800 stall.
and do u know any where that sells performance rebuild kits? because i want forged pistons,cam,gaskets,ect...?
do u think going .30 over would help any.
what size turbo should i get remember (very big ic)
and do u know how hard it is to relocated TB?
and how much do u think a ic will help in my time
thanks for the help again.
OK, 2800 stall will be good.
As far as rebuild kits, check the GN/TTYPE website, go to the vendors lists. There's a bunch of folks who sell all you need. Give Red Armstrong a call at Quad Air (he's a good guy), or Jack at Cotton's performance.
I'd only bore the motor if it needs it, the stock pistons work just fine if you can re-use them, and it will save you some money. If you really want to go to forged, might as well bore it too to make sure everything is properly clearanced.
The big IC won't really require a bigger turbo, but to get 12's out of a street setup will. Just remember to match injectors with the turbo, and upgrade the fuel system to support it all. I'm guessing a PT52, or TA63 or something similar to make the HP you'll need, plus at least 50pph injectors. Red or Jack will be able to set you straight there.
If you are really serious, get the 87 intake and the rest of the parts you'll need. It's WAY easier to make that style motor run numbers than the 84-85 setup, even if you add an IC. The early intake and exhaust is just not up to the task, IMHO.
Fast Freddie
Fast Freddie thanks for the help.