Well my 87 GN died on me today. Had to get it towed home. Was driving along, went to pass someone so I was into boost a bit, and she cut out and died.
Starter clicks, but motor does't crank or turn over. Got fuel pressure. ECM and CCCI fuses are OK. Lights dim when I go to start her. All accessories seem to work. The SES light seems to blink once and then stay on if I turn the key to the start position. No malfunction code per the Scanmaster.
Any help on where to start looking? The car has the original starter and alternator. Car has 110K miles on it. Battery appears to be in good shape. Battery is about 2 years old with less than 20k miles on it.
I've recently had a similiar problem (kind of). Did you check the battery lead to make sure it hasn't melted and contacted the exhaust? I'm told this is a common problem. My only other experience similiar to this has been with the cam sensor...intermittently worked and then wouldn't. I'm curious to hear what you find, I still can't get mine to run. I have an '86 GN with approximately the same mileage. Just had the motor reworked and now it will only start after sitting for a long time (overnight). If you shut it off after running it for a few minutes, it won't start back up.....I'm ready to set fire to it. Or maybe, '86 GN for sale, interior like new, engine like new, new tires, excellent shape except for left rear quarter panel damage......won't start.
Ready to cry...
Mike,
"Was driving along, went to pass someone so I was into boost
a bit, and she cut out and died.
Starter clicks, but motor does't crank or turn over. Got
fuel pressure. ECM and CCCI fuses are OK. Lights dim when
I go to start her. All accessories seem to work. The SES
light seems to blink once and then stay on if I turn the key
to the start position. No malfunction code per the
Scanmaster."
...sorry - we've been replying to this post on the mailing list - not the forum. So far - a few of us came up with these suggestions fo ya..here's a summary:
alternator, loose starter, bad starter solenoid, cam sensor
...in no particular order.
Keep in mind the only thing that cranks the motor is the starting system. If it doesn't crank over, then its gotta be starter/battery/alternator & related circuitry. HAS to be. The only thing that can turn the motor is the starter (and Arnold Swarzenegger), so "start" there. ;) Dave,
"I've recently had a similiar problem (kind of). Did you
check the battery lead to make sure it hasn't melted and
contacted the exhaust? I'm told this is a common problem.
My only other experience similiar to this has been with the
cam sensor...intermittently worked and then wouldn't. I'm
curious to hear what you find, I still can't get mine to
run. I have an '86 GN with approximately the same mileage.
Just had the motor reworked and now it will only start after
sitting for a long time (overnight). If you shut it off
after running it for a few minutes, it won't start back
up.....I'm ready to set fire to it. Or maybe, '86 GN for
sale, interior like new, engine like new, new tires,
excellent shape except for left rear quarter panel
damage......won't start.
Ready to cry..."
..did you post your problem before? I dont remember seeing it. Sounds like you're at the end of your rope..I know how it goes! I was the same way - i get PISSED when something stumps me, and want to just get rid of it...but ahhh..the reward when you find it is priceless!
Im gonna take a gander here, and accuse your electrical system. Does the engine crank, but wont start? Or does it not crank at all? Weird problem there..kinda sounds like cam sensor is 180° out as well. But im leaning towards battery/alternator here as well. Car cranks up after sitting because it starts off of battery, and runs off of battery - but alternator isn't charging the system. After the battery sits, the potential builds back up and allows you to restart?
Just a guess - but give us some more details, and we'll get it solved for ya..dont give up yet, chief!
Jay
87GN
Thanks for the response...I posted my predicament on the 9th..the thread before this one entitled "won't start after it's warmed up". Here's the down and dirty...the part I don't understand. When it starts, it runs great, no error codes..nothing. The starting system "should" be okay, it has a new starter and turns over just fine. We've got it in the shop on the charger/starter (plenty of battery) and it turns over without a problem but for some reason it won't catch. If it's cold, after sitting overnight or for several hours it'll start right up. If the cam sensor was "180 out" would it ever run okay? If the starting system was the culprit would it turn over and not crank up? I'm trying to approach it methodically and isolate one system at a time...but I'm not sure where to start. Again, the motor's turning over, there's approx 38 lbs of fuel pressure measured at the rail, and I've got spark at the plug wire...but no worky. The guys at the garage seem to think it's a fuel pump voltage problem or a ground problem, but if I've got pressure at the rail it should at least start..right? Any recommendations to isolate it to fuel, starting system, ECM, etc. would be greatly appreciated. I bitch and moan but I don't want to have to get rid of it. Thanks for the encouraging words.... later, Dave
Exchange a "known good" coil pak onto your car. They do get old and tired. Coils can loose their oomph after they get hot. Casper's has a nice coil tester if you can't find a good coil pak for testing. I don't know much, but hey, it's worth a try.
It sounds like one of the fusible links to the starter is about to fail completely .
...but will a starter going bad (either the wiring, the solenoid, or the starter itself) kill the motor while driving like mine did?
Just read some posts off the digest. The battery is good. No corrosion anywhere and connections are tight. I even tried to jump it and get the same deal...the starter clicks but the motor doesn't turn over.
I was at my niece's birthday party all day today so I didn't get a chance to look at it today. Tomorrow, I'll have someone turn the key while I'm under the car seeing if the starter engages. I'll also do my best to check the wiring to see if anything is amiss.
Do you get repeat clicks or just one. If just one click the engine may be locked up. Either remove the flywheel cover and try to rotate engine with large screw driver in flexplate teeth or put a socket and large breaker bar on front crankshaft bolt.
Repeat clicking indicates you are not getting enough amps to starter. The solnoid will engauge the motor then the voltage and amps will go to zero and solnoid will release. Voltage and amps come back up and solnoid will re-engauge.
The solnoid only takes around 30 amps but the
started takes from 150 to 300 amps depending on condition of starter and heat.
If you can rotate engine look for an electrical problem. Load test the battery you should get at least 300 amps at 9.5 volts from it. Check connections at battery behind the cables. They like to corrode where you can't see it. Check the ground cable connection on the engine and the positive at solnoid.
Well, I tried turning the motor by hand and I can't budge it. Gives me indication that it's seized. Now what do I do? How did this happen?
Should I start looking for a good engine rebuilder in NJ?
If you're really sure you can't turn it, either by the front of the crank (balancer) or by the flywheel, something may have let go internally. And just because one end turns, you might want to make sure that the other end turns...
If you need a motor built in NJ, Ron's Custom Auto would be worth a look. http://www.homestead.com/prosites-ronj/Index.html
I tried both ends, on the flywheel with a pry bar in the teeth and at the balancer with a breaker bar and socket and couldn't budge it either way.
If you are sure it's seized you have two options. You can drop the oil pan for a look witch is probably a waste of time. Plan B is to remove the engine. Since it's locked up you can't disconnect torque convertor from flexplate. You can remove the engine with convertor attached leaving trans in car but you risk damage to oil pump. Plan B is to pull trans and engine at the same time.
As to what and why more info is needed. Was it knocking on a cold start? Did it knock before it quite? Low oil pressure?
Nothing seemed unusual before the incident. No funny noises, no poor performance, no smoking, no oil idiot light, nothing. Just quit running without any warning that I noticed at least.
Another thing. I had someone turn the key while I looked at the starter. It wasn't engaging. Is this odd? Did my starter go bad at exactly the same time my engine seized?
Is the starter bendix stuck out and jammed into the flexplate? That would make it difficult to turn the engine over too. Regardless, before I took the engine out I would remove the acc. belt and try to turn the engine over. If it still doesn't turn take out the spark plugs and then try to turn it over and so on. Could be something a little easier than internal damage.