Just curious about this one.
Why in Gods name would Buick choose not to expand and keep production on the Intercooled TurboV6 in our GN's? I can't think of a more capable motor to come out of GM since the pre-smog Rat motors.
They're cheap, easy to maintain, easy to work on, reliable, get MPG that still compares to today's new cars...what a crime to discontinue it! Imagine one in a 3000lb car..geez. Buick could have stole the spotlight from the Corvette, Camaro, Mustang, Ferrari, etc. Who knows what we'd be driving if this Turbo technology kept up with the Sy/Ty's, GN's, and TTA's. The TTA is still Pontiacs fastest 'bird ever.
Anyone know the reason for it's demise?
What a shame.
Yeah! The GNX was faster than the 'vette. Lloyd Reuss got the boot. 1987 almost broke GM because they made so many variations of vehicles. '87 was one of its highest sales years and one of its lowest profit years. They had to make some hard decisions. Roger Smith caved in to the UAW, and it's been downhill ever since. BTW, Roger Smith gets $910,000 a year in pension payments. In 1962, GM sold 51.5% of the US market and today, it's around 28%.
It seems to me, they could never answer the question, "What do we need to do to maintain market share?" The problem with GM is, they have a ton of guys at the top who are extremely bright individuals, but have no idea how to build vehicles that appeal to younger buyers. Why do you think that there are the number of ricers there are? Why do you think the Fox platform is so popular? The name of the game at GM, and above the glass ceiling is, "Feather your nest!" Believe me guys, Most of them don't give a rip about anything except how much stock and cash they can accumulate while they are there. They will do whatever it takes to maximize their kitty.
Let's all hope Bob Lutz can make a difference.
I agree with Don on his comments. Being with a Buick dealer thru those years I watched the "G" body and two door car sales go down to nothing. About 1984 the FWD car sales took off and they had the Euro look. The poor "G" body haden't changed since 1978 and look like an american car.
GM is profit driven and if it does not sell get rid of it. Can't really blame them. The other problem was the name "Buick" The division since inception was NOT known as a performance car. In the old days it was "The Doctors Car" an to this day sells to the high end eldery market. GM tends to stick with what works and the proof is the
Le Sabre, number one selling full size sedan.
Just my two cents
What a waste. Imagine a T6 using todays turbo technology and ECM possibilities using GM's R&D budget. Hows about a 2004 Vette offered with a regular 350, a Z06 package, and a T6 option?
I bet i know which one would sell more, and for cheaper. I think the T6 would be knocking on the 911 turbo's door by now.
It's a shame the GM suits don't love the products they represent anymore. No pride anymore. Hell - i bet not one of them drives anything "GM" but a Z06 and 69 COPO. They're probably driving Ferrari's and Lambo's for chrissakes. Wonder why nothings distiguishable on the road anymore..its like George Jetson on the freakin highway now.
Buick has an "old man's car" image, but they could be dominating the streets with a fleet of stock 12-second cars that still get 20+ MPG. What demographic of buyers wouldn't want that? Especially with the Camaro and TA phased out. Buick better step up to the plate, or die.
K - im done yappin for now
I like the comment about feathering your own nest. If these bean counters are so brilliant I would think they would be thinking of ways to sell more cars and grabbing a bigger market share. I hear how the bottom line is more profitable on trucks and SUV's and that is why all the great cars from the last 10 years are no longer made. What idiot decided it would be more profitable to shut down the B-body line at Arlington Texas and make Tahoe's. That one single move cost them more than what they are making. My point is, for example down where I live the local goverment was exclusively GM. They used Caprice police cars, Used Chevy trucks for the street and parks and other depts. The tax assessors and employees drove Cavaliers and Luminas. Their fleet was about 80-90 percent GM. Now they drive Crown Vics, F-series and Escorts. You get my point? Anyway the bottom line is it wasn't profitable to build these cars anymore, never mind the fact that the tooling was paid for, the assembly line was paid for, just about everything was paid for. BTW Holden makes a supercharged 3800 RWD with 6-speed in Australia. It wouldn't be to hard for Bob Lutz to bring it to the USA and tag it as a Buick like they are doing with the new GTO. The only problem I have is I probally wouldn't be able to afford to buy one.
I hope the importation of Holdens is just a
stopgap measure until GM can begin offering some
viable domestic RWD performance cars for the
masses. If they stop with the GTO and Cadillac,
I'll be sorely disappointed.
Eric, The Arlington decision was made because they felt they could sell all the trucks they could make there. GM, at the time was not ready to build a new plant. Even though the Impala SS was selling as fast as they could build them, the regular, bread and butter Caprice was not. The Imp. SS plus the police car sales were not nearly enough to keep the doors open. So, you're right. The truck sales made them a lot more money than the Caprices. GM in their infinite wisdom, thought they could sell the cops on Suburbans and Tahoes. The cops didn't like them because they turn over easily. They make lousy persuit wehicles. Imagine you're a cop going west on the interstate at about 75, and some AH, heading east, passes you at about 95-100. That Caprice could slam on the brakes, dive into the grass and do a youie, come up the other side and onto the blacktop quicker and safer than any car made. When they tried the same move in the Suburban,---well, you can imagine what happened. The Michigan State Police tested them, and they told GM where to park their oversized, high CG, overpriced, rollover prone, rolling caskets. There went the police market, right down the drain to Dearborn. BTW, the only Crown Vic police cars that I know of, at that time, were being driven in Dearborn.
Hold on to your GNs and your other Turbo Buicks and love them for what they are cause you ain't gonna buy one of those 1000HP Caddys for a looong time. By the time you'll be able to afford a used one, you'll be too old to enjoy it.
The bottom line is hold on to your turbo car. As much as we would like to see the return of the GM performance car there are not enough of us to make it profitable. Several other factors are involved also like CAFE.
I have a prime example.
When I started working on the force in 1995, we had one caprice police car left, 350 with a four speed auto. It was a 1989 model and was our un-mark. This car had over 150,000 mile on her and could out-accelerate the new style crown vics we had. Body was rough but it made a perfect traffic car. People would drive by and think it was a broken down rusted car, that is, until the lights came on. I drove that thing over curbs, through the grass medians, and even through a park trail once. I loved it. Very low maintenance car, add gas and oil.
The crown vic we have now I would even try half the hot dogs techiques as I did with the caprice.
Basically the crown vics are junk. too much plastic, 4.6 motor is high maintenance, oil rings keep burning out, and, They BLOW UP!!!!
Ask the Arizona DPS (state police), they lost four guys in rear end collisions with the crown vics.
I really hate GM for taking away on of the best police/pursuit car to come out of Detroit in a long time. Anyways that's my two cents.
P.S. By the way, Pittsburgh PD used four turbo regals as traffic cars back in the late 80s to mid 90s. Can you imagine being in your corvette or mustang and being stopped by an un-marked turbo regal. NOW THAT'S COOL!!!
State of CT. used Grand Nationals for a while. First time I went from MA. to CT. I could not figure out why everybody was slamming on their brakes and slowing down and pulling over for me. Then on the way back to MA. I saw 4 G/N's on the side of the Interstate with blue lights flashing and a line of cars pulled over!The rest of the way back to MA.You can imagine I had no problem getting drivers to get out of the left hand lane and let me by!
Yeah I agree with you all. I dont plan on selling my GN. I want to be an old fart telling the young punks on how it used to be back in the really good old days. You know now that I think about I have a Roadmaster built in Arlington and its a nice car but the build quality sucks. Buick should have bought it back under the lemon law or at least compensate me for making it right. Kind of reminds me of my GN 15 years ago. Just like the turbo cars I think the nails were on the coffin for the B-bodies before they put the LT1 in them. It never fails, just when GM gets something right they pull the plug. Did anyone see the concept cars at this months Detroit Auto Show? I suspect the era of the SUV will be short and maybe GM will start to bring back the affordable performance car.
Eric you have found out the differance between a BOC car and a CPC car. Every time Buick got involved with a CPC car the dealership service department went thru hell. It started in 1973 and contiues today.
Heh, the Caprice is definitely faster than the Crown Vic, but you gotta admit the Vic sure handles better and doesn't dive to the ground when you slam the brakes. As much as I'm a GM guy, I'd buy a police Crown Vic and put a huffer on it for a daily driver with no regrets.
Ian,
No doubt the Crown Vics brakes are ten time better that the brake fade prone Caprice, but as are far as handling, I would second guess that. Our Caprice could zip in and out of traffic like a throughbread. Plus the Caprice never bottomed out like the Crown Vic. Take a look at the rear bumpers on the police Crown Vic, How many do you see that are not torn from the tail pipe cutout. Everyone we have is torn. I guess from bottoming out and catching pot holes or obstructions.
And please don't get me started on the amount of rattles these things have. It'll drive you crazy. But until GM come out with another rear drive Police Car, one with a 3.8 turbo would be nice, (I don't count the Impala and a full blown police car), we'll use FOMOCO.
P.S. I believe there is a company in MO/KS that restores the old Caprices for police use.
Maybe I am showing my age but it seems this seems real sad to me. How does a large ulgy four door boat with a low HP iron head LT-1 get so much attention. Boy do I miss the good old days!
Interesting philosophical discussion on RWD
performance... in the Engine Mechanicals section.
(smile) Oh well... By 2005, we may begin to see
a return by GM to RWD in cars most people can buy.
Dodge will be doing it real soon in their LH cars
(Concorde/Intrepid) and adding the 5.7 Hemi to
boot. I heard that some law enforcement agencies
are already putting in orders for Hemi-powered,
RWD Dodges. Now that Pontiac is w/o a V8, the
Bonnie is slated to get a Northstar-derived 4.4L
V8 in '04. It might be converted to RWD in '05.
Maybe there's still hope...
Nick you and I agree on RWD. I hate FWD cars and the rush you get when a RWD car hits second and dog legs is something I love. Unfortunally the cost of production of RWD far exceeds that of FWD. In todays competive market RWD doesn't make profits. I would love to see more RWD cars but I don't think it's going to happen. The ones that are out there will be low in production to keep the price high so the loss of profit will be less.
The #1 most important reason behind FWD was the government gas mileage regulations. The drivetrain in a FWD car is more efficient. At the time GM made the decision to go almost all FWD, they were looking for every last little bit of gas mileage they could find. Second was the money like Phil says. They tried to sell the idea that FWD gives you better traction in the snow, but that is the by-product, not the rationale they really used to make the decision.
Talk about doglegs, I love it. Of course, the air bag in my WE4 keeps me straight. I never will get used to torque steer though. When you pop second in a FWD, high HP car, you better hang on to that wheel or you'll be heading for the curb.
Talk to y'all later.
What is the part number for valve covers for an 86/87 GN/T? Are these the same for 84/85?
I bought a pair of "Grand National" valve covers from Ebay - looked right in the pictures (must not have looked close enough though).
Unboxed them last night to give them a cleaning, and noticed that the cover with the fill tube also has a gromet in the end. Part# is 25520185.
The other cover has no gromets/fill holes.
If memory serves, and at my age it can't be trusted, the passenger cover has a gromet in the front, not the driver's side.
My GN is in storage, so I didn't have a chance to eyeball them side by side with those on the car.
GM # 25520185 fits 1984-85 Riveria left side. Covers for 1984-85 GN are 25520187 LH and 25536784 RH. For 1986-87 25520187 LH and 25525250 RH
Thanks for the reply!
Sorry for my errant posting! Should have been a new thread.
Thanks again...