Ok, don't flame me for doing this, I am currently working on an engine swap, an oldmobile 3.8 n/a into a Cavalier. My question deals with the engine alone.
I removed this engine from an 86 Delta 88 Royale Broughm. I am going to rebuild it. From what I understand this engine puts out only 150 horse stock.
I want more, I was thinking of cams from a Series II 3800, but I am thinking that maybe my heads are very restrictive? I am new to engine building to any help would be greatly appreciated.
Scott K is gonna chew you a new one for putting this up.
Chew him a new one? Nahh...not exactly my flavor, and you must admire that he's putting a Buick motor in something. Buick power is what we talk about here. No matter what anyone's twisted mind decides to install it in.
The Series II 3800 is not at all the same as the 3.8 you're working with. Other than both being Buick V6's of 3.8 liter displacement, there's probably few if any transferable parts.
I'm not sure what year motor you're working with, but you might have some trouble finding upgrade parts for the FWD motors. Not sure the FWD motors use the same cams as the RWD ones, and I'm guessing aftermarket headers are probably not available for the FWD cars.
Before you concern yourself with upgrades to your motor, you may want to think about the swap itself. For example, you need to determine if your transaxle is compatible with the motor if you're not bringing that over from the Olds as well.
You might find some good info on what different Buick V6 motors have in common at http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html At one time Thrasher used to have some good pictures of a Series II teardown (supercharged, in this case) on their site at http://www.thrasher-ep.com/ but it looks like they are redoing their site. You would be able to see that its a very different animal inside.
There are several sites discussing the transplant of the Series II supercharged motors into other cars, particularly W-body GM cars. http://luminasupercharged.com/ is a good example. Again, not directly applicable to what you're doing, but there may be some swap information that helps.
I've also seen a turbo Buick V6 setup on a FWD Buick block in a Fiero. Since a Fiero drivetrain is basically a Chevy Citation drivetrain reversed, such swaps might be good to study for compatibility and parts ideas.
Bottom line is that I think this is probably not a trivial swap and might take a little work to complete.
But it came from a oldmabeater!
It's still the Buick motor ... it's just that Olds used it as the "corporate V6" of the time. You'll find it in Pontiacs, Buicks, Olds, etc.
Ya I know B.O.P. I was just trying to stirr the pot a little...didnt work.
Well, I just got my account working again, so I can finally respond.
As far as I know, this motor is the same block as the ones you guys run in your cars. My question is, 150 horse is too little, what would you do to get some more power out of this engine? Cams? Heads?
I really don't know where I should begin, or look.
What are the numbers on a stock n/a Buick engine?
Being a sidewinder kind of limits things a little, since the packaging necessitates kind of convoluted exhaust routing.
Being N/A with SFI means that you'll want to make sure you get a chip calibrated for whatever combination you decide on. A cam can help a little ... porting the heads and intake would probably be a good move. Anything that helps exhaust/intake will increase HP.
If it's carbed, then you might look into putting the FI set up on it.
Stock N/A preSeries I 3.8s were between 120 and 160 HP (FI being the higher HP cars and the carb'ed ones were pretty anemic).
Mine's an SFI car, I have the controls worked out, using my cavalier's computer, and doing some surgery to the wiring harness....
As far as cam's go, I wanted to see if the Series II 3800 cams would work, but do you guys run a cam that would work a little better?
Porting the heads and intake, forgive me for being neive, but what exactly does this entail?
I'm assuming that your Cavalier is already a V6 car? Otherwise, I'm not sure your car's existing computer will help much.
Block number information can be found at http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/blocks/blockguide.html and http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html
As noted above, the Series II motors are completely different internally. I'm fairly certain that the cam from one will not swap into the motor you have. And not being a popular 'performance' motor, you have difficulty finding any off-the-shelf upgrade cam. You may have to have one ground especially for you.
Porting involves smoothing and reshaping of the surfaces that air and fuel flow over as they enter and leave the combustion chamber. See http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/pictureguides/heads/porting/porting.html for some examples. Doing this involves quite a bit of time and patience, but not much in the way of expense or parts if you do it yourself.
Ok, I understand now. I'll bet that porting and polishing would be expecially important on a turbo application. Which leads me to my next question, my block is very similar to the turbo charged models, is it not?
I have recently come into a Garret T25 turbo. There must be performance parts avaiable for the old turbo 3.8's. I realize that I need a completly custom exaust manifold. And probably some engine internals. The 3.8 turbo had a hardened crank? Different Cams? Heads?
Well, to be truthful, porting and polishing isn't as critical in a turbocharged application (not saying it doesn't help ... it does). The turbo and forced air is a great way to overcome a little port restriction (just turn up the boost!
) As far as the block being similar, not really. Depends on the year that the motor came out of. A 3800 is NOT a 3.8 ... different bore spacing, balance shaft, etc. on the 3800. If the 3.8 came out of an EARLY Olds (prior to 1988), it might be a 3.8 style block (which interchanges).
3.8 turbo had a rolled fillet crank (nodular iron, not hardened), the cam is a bit different, but not really a factor. Rods were "two dot" rods, which a bit beefier and used in late NA applications as well. It's really important to identify the year that your V6 came out of (I don't think you've ever told us?)
My v6 came out of an 86 car.
As far as building this engine up, would a fresh rebuild be enough, or should I go for upgrading the engine internals for the turbo?