I’ll try to shorten this but it has been a major issue for 4 months.
I recently bought re-built performance 200-R4. The install went relatively well and I was wrapping this project up and filling it with fluid for its first drive. Now according to my 87 Monte Carlo Manual the trans takes 22 pints. I was on my last half pint and I heard this ‘glug’ sound, which ended up being trans fluid pouring out the passenger side around the gasket. So I’m under the car replacing the gasket and adding some silicone. I ended up going through 2 gaskets because they were tearing as soon as I began to torque the bolts. I dropped the pan again and determined it wasn’t perfectly flat on the rail and ‘worked’ it straight. After slitting another gasket I contacted the trans shop they agreed to send me a good used pan. This pan was much heavier metal than the first and had a built in bead to the rail. I then got a rubber gasket instead of the paper and cork I was working with.
Now the new pan and gasket are in and it seems to be leaking at the front of the pan out to both front corners. I’ve torque everything to 13Lbs (I believe factory is 7-10), but nothing is stopping the leak. I didn’t use silicone on the rubber gasket because I didn’t think it would be needed the pan was in exceptional shape and I’m positive it is straight. But today even with the extra torque I ran the car in the garage and warmed everything up and checked fluid levels and as soon as the car was shut off I had a puddle. I read another post about being over full and leaking out the breather. I admit I might be slightly overfilled but the trans seems dry above the pan.
HELP, I’m at wits end and actually began to consider selling the car and cutting my losses. This leak almost seems a design issue since on the front the bolts are so far apart. Also for the fact I’ve been through 2 pans and 4 gaskets. Nothing seemed to even slow this leak down from one pan and gasket to another.
What am I missing? And is there anything that can be done?
Your sure the filter is all the way in? You don't have the magnet in the way of the filter or perhaps a drain plug hitting something? Sounds like the pan is not being pulled up to the case all the way in the front.Take the pan down again (life sucks I know) and make sure without a gasket that it touches the case all the way around! Put 4 quarts in then start it before you top it off. It's not the cars fault don't sell it!
Actually this problem has happened with two seperate pans. One with the flat railing and no magnet and one with the ribbed pan rail and a magnet. I'm know I'm probably going to have to drop the pan again, even though it sucks tremendously. I'll definitly check the pan without a gasket to make sure it is pulling up all the way. Another member emailed a response about the GM filter kit that is matched to the ribbed pan. I'm going to hunt one of these down and give it a shot.
I know it isn't the cars fault, but I can't afford to redo every mod 10 times before it works. There is easily a couple 100 $ tied up in this leak alone. I named the car 'money pit' when I first bought it. Maybe that cursed the car for me.
I know how you feel! Good luck, oh by the way the pan bolts are 100 inch #. Don't over tighten!
100 in # !?!?!
Jeez the Chevy manual for the Monte carlo (same trans) has it as 7-10 foot #. I think this would be the second time now that book was less than accurate. I should have gotten a Buick GN manual and not depended on what I had just because the one part was the same.
Thanks for the info.
You know the pan is straight.....but is the case?? Use a straight edge on the case where the pan mounts and see if you've got any weird spots. I'm guessing you could use a file of some sort to help straighten it out if needed or just use a nice amount of silicone, just make sure you don't have any oozing into the tranny. If it's too bad, then I'd be calling the shop.
100 inch/lb. = approx. 8.33 lb./ft. So it's the same thing only different.HTH, Curt.
I knew it had to be close,I don't like using ft/lbs and alluminum threads in the same sentence. Nice work on the conversion.
Hey all thanks for the help and advise. I ran a level across the trans when I first started considering a bent pan. I believe it was good but I'll definitely check it again. But you know even with silicone on both sides of the gasket this thing leaked at the front of the pan. I'm having an extra set of eyes coming down this week. I hate the thought of pulling this thing out.
Another quick question. I read in another post of this site that a trans if over full would leak until it got to a lower level. I' pretty sure this isn't what I'm dealing with since my leak is at the gasket.
Is my thinking somewhat correct on this one?
Yea, It wouldn't leak out of the pan if it was just over full. You've checked where the dip stick tube and the tv cable go in right?
There was a little seeping around the TV cable but I tightened it with no difference to the puddle. The dipstick seemed fine. She goes up again tomorrow. I'll post what I find.
Ok, Pan has been off and back on now. Leak test tomorrow. I believe I was overfilled easily a quart or two. I must have rushed or something. I would have sworn it drained more out last time.
Now things I found:
The pan was straight, not perfectly but I figure how perfect were they from the factory?
The Trans lip was fine no scraps, waves or anything.
So I'll start slower with fluid tomorrow. Hopefully I got right now. Thanks for the help.
Maybe a new tidbit that might shed light on this. I've definitely slowed this down. but I noticed that I can take the car out driving and whe I park I'll look under and I'm not getting throw back onthe crossmember or anything.
I have to wait 30-60 minutes before I see a drip. So I'm thinking it might be something draining back after being driven. But not being a trans expert I don't know everything that might be draining back. It seems isolated to the front driver side corner now.
Thanks again.
You're sure it's coming from the pan? I'm not doubting you, it just seems like you've sealed that thing up good. Doesn't seem to me like you could seal the pan to the tranny any better if you welded it.
I'm just thinking maybe it's the front seal? I've noticed with my Chevelle, if it's run everyday, all the time, then I usually don't have any leaks but if I start driving it less and less, then it starts to leak from the front seal. I think maybe it dries out in one spot or just plain dries out and shrinks a little then starts dripping. All I usually have to do is just start driving the car more and it stops. Maybe when the torque converter was put in it somehow tore the seal or something? I dunno, just guessing, trying to give you something else to take a look at. Of course my GN seems to have a very slow drip, I think it's because it's overfilled a bit, course I almost never drive it, and I've had the tranny up, the tranny down, the tranny up, not to mention the same thing with the pan, pan up, pan down, pan up, pan down, trying to fix something else. I've pretty much just decided to make sure I have cardboard under the car in the garage, afterall it drips oil too. Good luck, let us know if you finally make it dry under there.
The reason I'm hovering around that pan is all the fluid is collecting there. I've had several friends and that under looking. Its weird I can't find any place else that has fluid on it. I'd almost welcome to see fluid around the seal. At least then I'd have an idea.
I like your idea of welding. I've considered it on more than one ocassion.
Just a shot in the dark, but I'd spray the area with some brake clean. Start it up and watch where it's starting to leak from. Especially the shift shaft seal. (Say that ten times real fast :^) Either that, or a coolant line or speedometer gear assembly could be leaking onto the pan flange then wicking all around it and covering the pan.
Or just consider the car is male and insist on marking it's territory. :^O
I gotta agree with Priz on the less driving makes them leak more. Both my 455 Street roadster and my GN leak much less when they are driven often. Guess it swells the seals ..
Welding would be good....until you had to change the fluid and filter.DOH!!
I'd get under the car with a good light, drop and flash, and either as Dwight said, use brake cleaner, or a good clean rag, possibly white, and wipe everything down. Maybe use an older rag first, wanna keep the white one as white as you can for testing. It may be hard to get the rag up by the seal(I'm talking about the one waayyy up behind the torque converter) but try to clean it as best you can. Then just lie back and wait, checking everywhere with a flashlight and droplight, if it appears wet, hit it with the rag and see if it comes back red. It may seem like the pan, but I think that's from an evil tranny designer who made it so almost ANY leak settles on the edge of the pan leading you to think it's the pan and gasket, probably somebody that works for a tranny fluid or tranny gasket maker.;) hehe, You know that even if you welded it, it would find SOME way to leak, just to make you mad. I've come to the conclusion that my car is female, how do I know?? Well it seems just fine when I'm working on it, but if I leave it alone for awhile.....something breaks or leaks and needs my attention. Then it's fine again for awhile.lol Keep us informed, depending on what you find out, I may take a better look at mine whenever I get around to it.
Well I didn't read all the above posts, but is it an aftermarket cast aluminum pan? If it is, it may be porous in the spot you see the leak. Obviously, you can't see the porosity with your eyes. You just see the wet spot. A sealer of some sort on the pan case itself may do the trick.
Ok well I found the leak (or at least one of them). It seems I’m getting fluid around the bolt that comes out and the shifter lever (B&M aftermarket) bolts to. I pulled the shift lever off this weekend and the bolt was wet and a very faint trail to the pan. I can’t figure out why it’s leaking or more importantly how to stop it. It seems that the bolt comes out through a washer that is pushed in the side of the trans. The assembly seems to be pressed instead of bolted together. Also I’d think that area would get more fluid from splash than anything.
Any thought? Otherwise I’m going to invest in an oil company and keep the trunk stocked with ATF.