Rather than hypotesizing about when these heads will be available, Lonnie and I called Mike Tomaszewski at T/A Performance and got the latest information. He does not expect to receive a shipment of production-run castings until mid or late December. You can put a deposit down on a set of these heads now, but it appears they will not be shipping bolt-on, ready-to-go (valvetrain-wise) heads until mid-late January. As such, the heads will not be "commercially available" as of December 1.
We do not anticipate any significant HP advantage from these heads and are considering allowing them regardless of the availability date.
We want to be fair about allowing these aluminum heads to all the present and future TSM racers and would appreciate your opinions. Please post here your opinions on allowing these heads in TSM competition next year, knowing that their availability may be as late as posted above.
I had, in the past, 1 M&A "new style" head to play with, this is the head that the TA heads were made from. It was a very good head and from what I know (not a lot) Mike made it better. So while there should be some HP advantage using them, with the current turbo limit it will be very small IMO. That being said I would strongly advise that you allow these heads for next season. It would be a shame to penalize TA, after all they seem to be the only folks devolving any serious parts these days and they should be supported as much as possible. This will only help your series long term keeping fresh blood in.
Mike Licht
I say let them in. I agree with Mike, don't punish T/A for developing new parts because they were behind some GSCA deadline.
I agree with Mike and Dusty. The TA heads should be allowed.
Lonnie
I thought my message made it in. I too agree that they should let them in.
OK to let them in...
Let 'em ride, Hell I may even have a set by then.
Let em in. They will be the next major purchase for my car.
they are o.k.
but let me tell you what is going to probably happen. they expect delivery by mid to late dec. in actuallity they will probably be delayed at least a month maybe two after that. So there will only be a few people that will have these by next nats in their hands.
Yep! My main concern is to get everyone (O.K. a majority) to agree to let them in so I don't have to put up with any arguments over it not being fair to everyone involved. Thus, this discussion.
You can put your deposit in now and get in at the front of the line (I believe Mike said he has less than five orders as of present).
IMO the main concern is this. Do they offer an unfair advantage? If anyone feels that they do and there is any chance that anyone racing TSM would not be able to buy a set then they will need to be held to the Dec. 1st deadline. I hope they are all that and a bag of chips. I think the size of the turbo is the limiting factor not the heads. Not everyone who would prefer the original M&A heads can buy them (legal for TSM). The TA heads are a re-make of the original with some improvements. From the conversation with Mike that is mainly the valve placement and the overall casting improvement for strength. I dont think there are any unfair advantages with either so I see no reason why the TA heads should be excluded. Thats my opinion but I agreed with Scott. The racers need to decide.
Hello i agree with everyone here the head`s should be allowed.I don`t think there going to be a big improvment. I think that aluminum heads have an advantage over iron thats worth more than the 100lb. weight break. The only problem i have is that not everyone will be able to have a pair. I wanted a set of houston headers for the nats but non where available but dave england had a set and jason cramer had a set both had 3 1/2 downpipes. I don`t think they had a big advantage but they had them and i had to run stockers. I think if there availble to everyone that wants a set let them in if they only can supply a few guys make them legal for 2004. Laz
well sounds good to me but i have one question about the heads will they fit and 85 t type block? if they do let them in and count me as another customer but if they dont where can i find some performance heads for this 85 ttype? thanx
Alright, so no decision has been made on this. Let's get serious. Does anyone (TSM racers) have a deposit on these heads other than Lonnie?
As Nick Micale has posted, he "hopes" to have sets of heads available at Norwalk. Lonnie also "hopes" to have his by Norwalk. The way things are progressing, I wouldn't be surprised if that date is missed and/or the heads get tested for the first time at Norwalk.
Based on the above discussions, I don't think anyone is afraid of the HP advantage...but is this unfair in that only 1 or 2 racers will possibly even have a set? (Note that this scenario is the reason the GSCA says parts have to be commercially available by December 1 the year before). Further opinions please.
I agree with the all of the guys above in allowing these heads. If we do allow them we need to not just pick and choose what vendor has to obey this Dec. 1st rule and what vendors can ignore it. The only way to do this is to eliminate this rule. I think this rule is a bunch of BS anyway.
I stand where I stood before.. Let them in and take away and add 300lbs to Roy Garcia and Jason Cramer's cars..lol (had to pull your chains..)
Jason White
WAIT Jason, don't blame me ! Remember we are "the light car with the steel heads". Don't penalize me, I say penalize the BIG gun (Dr. Cramer) " the heavier car with those powerfull aluminum heada", I say at least a 600 lb. and an extra 150# for the "FAST" system ;)
I do have a set on order. They tell me I will have in 2-3 weeks but they are not sure if I will have rockers. (bought the race heads) Was not really worried about it until after doing the math and figuring out that the stage motor will not be done for BG. So now I need the heads to put the TSM motor back in the car as I have sold half my stuff at this point for the stage project and not looking forward to buying another set of heads. I dont care either way. What ever you guys think is fair I will live with. I had planned on another set of heads as I am not sure I would even have all that will be needed to use the TA heads anyway. Although I would like to run my fancy Champion brackets. I think they fall in the gray area as they are not stock but have the factory belt routing. Lets air this out now before I show up with them on the car.
I would also like to add that the deadline date was established for turbos and class rules to prevent what we have seen happen in past with the PTE-88 and the TE-45. I dont think it was ever intended to extend to other parts.
OK, let's wrap this up.
As Lonnie noted above, the December 1 deadline applies to turbos and class rules. Thus, reading into that, the following items are legal for 2003 TSM points series racing (for the following reasons):
* TA Aluminum heads (as aluminum heads are already allowed per the rules),
* RJC's Stock Block Head Clamp (as this requires no modification to the block), and
* The "new" turbos with a 70 mm inducer and a larger exducer (as it meets our criteria for measurements).