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-   -   Stock or stage one (http://gnttype.org/forums/showthread.php?t=14843)

Fast_t_type 01-13-2012 08:05 PM

Stock or stage one
 
I was wondering what the max HP you can safely get out of a stock block VS a stage one block??

kenmosher 01-14-2012 12:48 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
The Stage 1 block wasn't all that much different than a stock block except for a bit more beef down in the mains and such. Over the years the stock block has had things like steel main caps, girdles, etc. developed for it that allow for more bottom end stability. The difference in HP capacity (for same displacement anyway) is pretty much zero if built right. Stock block cars have been into the 9s at almost full weight ...

One of the big difference is the clamping force available with the extra bolt holes in the heads on Stage blocks, but even that has solutions on the stock block. Stage TWO blocks are significantly stronger, but usually are for high dollar super high horsepower race set ups. TA Performances aftermarket block is really the "trick" piece in that sort of setup now (and you can get some really big displacement out of it ... like almost 300 cubes!)

Fast_t_type 01-17-2012 09:05 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
Can the steel main caps, girdles fit on a stage one? I want to build a high 10 summer cruiser. I want it to last longer then a couple passes but want it to look as close to bone stock as I can.

kenmosher 01-17-2012 10:10 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
A stage one block will need four bolt caps. A stock block with steel mains and/or a girdle will meet your goals. Probably cheaper too.

charlief1 01-18-2012 12:55 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
There's a much less expensive way to go about it if you feel like doing it. The Series II FWD engine has been put in a RWD F body cars and there's an adapter for the bellhousing so you can put a conventional RWD tranny on it. I know of one that has been put in a GN and with very few mods to the long block it's already been in the 10's with decent gas mileage. The Series II engine is the poor mans stage based block with cross bolted mains and very good flowing heads. You can still get them cheap out of a scrap yard and fab all the parts plus adapt the ECM from an F body for less than a Stage block or even putting billet mains or a girdle on a RWD block.:six:

Keller 01-18-2012 01:25 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by charlief1 (Post 61109)
Series II FWD engine has been put in a RWD F body cars and there's an adapter for the bellhousing so you can put a conventional RWD tranny on it.

Regular Series II or the supercharged one? I haven't seen the thread in awhile.
Quote:

Originally Posted by charlief1 (Post 61109)
The Series II engine is the poor mans stage based block with cross bolted mains and very good flowing heads.

FWIW, they are actually six bolt mains: four up and two cross-bolts.
Quote:

Originally Posted by charlief1 (Post 61109)
You can still get them cheap out of a scrap yard and fab all the parts plus adapt the ECM from an F body

The fabbing is the secret. Not even sure what mounts would set the Series II in a G-body. I imagine something adapted from the F-body NA Series II or from a Australian Holden application. Still have to work up headers, intake (or use a F-body 3800 one) etc.

I would not bother going with a F-body ECM. If you are going this serious, I'd just make the jump to XFI.

charlief1 01-18-2012 06:12 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Keller (Post 61111)
Regular Series II or the supercharged one? I haven't seen the thread in awhile.

FWIW, they are actually six bolt mains: four up and two cross-bolts.

The fabbing is the secret. Not even sure what mounts would set the Series II in a G-body. I imagine something adapted from the F-body NA Series II or from a Australian Holden application. Still have to work up headers, intake (or use a F-body 3800 one) etc.

I would not bother going with a F-body ECM. If you are going this serious, I'd just make the jump to XFI.

I belive it was a supercharged engine Scott. The Series II engines were technology adapted from racing the Stage block and heads and we've got nothing on the Aussies when it comes to development of them. They even have stroker kits for them. As far as motor mounts you have to use the F body ones and you do have to do some fab work on the mounts as well as fab headers for it. I'm actually looking at making an intake for one and trying the draw through set up on it just to see if it'll work. The timing cover for the RWD is a direct swap so I can use the distributor but I'm not sure how I'm going to make the accessory drives for the alt and steering pump.

kenmosher 01-18-2012 06:17 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
You read my mind ... I was going to ask about all the accessory drive stuff. Since the front cover is the same, does the stock aluminum "mega bracket" all bolt up? Or do you have to redo everything?

charlief1 01-18-2012 06:23 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by kenmosher (Post 61114)
You read my mind ... I was going to ask about all the accessory drive stuff. Since the front cover is the same, does the stock aluminum "mega bracket" all bolt up? Or do you have to redo everything?

Don't know Ken. I do know that the Series II block is an on center though. What I'd love to see is someone put a set of the Series II heads on a RWD block. I compaired the head gaskets a while ago and they're exacly the same so the heads will bolt directily up, but you have to make the intake and headers from scratch. I'm suprised no one else has looked into this because it would technically fit into the race classes.:lite: It would most likely get outlawed right away though.:ugh:

kenmosher 01-18-2012 06:33 PM

Re: Stock or stage one
 
I think waaay back someone did do that (maybe Thrasher?) But it became pretty high dollar pretty fast and there were still Stage II off-center blocks and heads available. Bowling Green had an intake they made too ...

Now you have TA Performance with the custom block and heads that can be made into a SERIOUS race motor of almost any displacement for the big dollar setups. The street stuff can be made to go mid 10s all day long with ported iron heads or aftermarket aluminum with a stock block with steel mains/girdle. And Fullthrottle had a stroker kit available (don't know if they still do).

The real budget build for awhile there was to get an old 14 bolt oil pan 4.1 and use that ... for a long time they were pretty cheap, the extra cubes made it easier to build torque and if you split one down the middle you got another $50 block and did it again. :)


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