GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums
This is a general site search and does not include list archives.

Go Back   GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums > Technical Topics > Alternate Fuels

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-27-2007, 06:05 PM
Survivor87 Survivor87 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tx.
Posts: 205
Survivor87 is on a distinguished road
Default High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

Well I just got an education when I called my friendly local speed shop to price fuels. I was thinking of running unleaded in the car when I do finally get it to the track. Not necessarily to save the converter, but to save the O2 sensor. Check these prices:
110 leaded -$6.65
116 leaded -$7.50
105 unleaded -$9.50...what!!!!!


Guess I wasn't aware of the higher cost of the unleaded fuels. In the past I have only used 110 leaded on other cars. So I am looking for some opinions pro/con on running the unleaded fuel. For one thing, will I be able to run significantly more timing with the 110 vs. the 105? I am not averse to replacing an O2 sensor now and then...just wondering if there are other factors I haven't considered.
__________________
Steve Allen- '87GN "survivor"
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-28-2007, 10:26 AM
kenmosher's Avatar
kenmosher kenmosher is offline
Whoosh
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 3,984
kenmosher is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

No downsides except the sensor/converter (obviously).

You can buy a lot of O2 sensors for the difference in price between the unleaded and leaded!
__________________
Ken Mosher
1987 GN original owner 650+ HP Black
2015 BMW 328xi XDrive wagon
2012 Volkswagen Tiguan (the Tig!) Night Blue Met (sold)
2006 Trailblazer SS Red Jewel Tint 395 HP AWD (sold)
2014 Silverado LTZ Crew 4WD
2012 Honda VFR 1200F Tahitian Blue (sold)
2015 BMW S1000R Racing Red
2013 Honda CBR500R Red (wife's bike)
2014 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Harley Davidson V Rod Anniversary Edition
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-28-2007, 10:48 AM
Survivor87 Survivor87 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tx.
Posts: 205
Survivor87 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

That's what I was thinking as well. I just don't have a feel for the life expectancy of an O2 sensor that might be exposed to 6-8 passes on leaded fuel once a month give or take.
I'm also considering alcohol since it seems to be more and more popular these days.
__________________
Steve Allen- '87GN "survivor"

Last edited by Survivor87; 02-28-2007 at 10:52 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-28-2007, 11:13 AM
Keller's Avatar
Keller Keller is offline
GNTTYPE Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,424
Keller is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

With a heated O2, you can get a fair bit more life provided you heat it before you start the car.

Just something that has to be considered...

Alcohol does look pretty good at times.
__________________
Scott Keller - GNTTYPE Founder & Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-28-2007, 08:25 PM
tommy231's Avatar
tommy231 tommy231 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 20
tommy231 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

There are lots of so-called lead-tolerant O2 sensors available as well. I've been running TiO2 sensors for many years without issue. However, with all the environmental concerns... it would certainly be best to leave the lead to the history books. How about switching to E85? It is about the same octane as unleaded race gas, but a lot less expensive.

If you have a source for it, E100 would be even better and the octane is closer to the leaded stuff you're familiar with. You'll need about 30 to 40% more of it to go the same distance as gasoline (or to make the same HP), your pump, fuel lines, tank, regulator and injectors will need to tolerate it, and you'll need a good way to calibrate it, such as some tuning software and a wide-band O2 sensor. It might be an expensive conversion, but you wouldn't have to drive very far to save most of the money with lower fuel costs compared to the unleaded race gas.

E85 is getting to be so popular in most states that I'll bet you can drive to a local pump to fill up (http://www.e85refueling.com/). Be careful of the changing Ethanol content as it varies from 70 to 85% Ethanol, depending on the source and time of year, hence the need for ongoing tuning.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-28-2007, 10:34 PM
PaCemkr86's Avatar
PaCemkr86 PaCemkr86 is offline
Tech Support
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,817
PaCemkr86 is on a distinguished road
Send a message via AIM to PaCemkr86
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

save your $$$ and do it with pump gas and an alky kit..
__________________
Phil Underwood

My Turbo Buick
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 03-10-2007, 12:35 PM
Survivor87 Survivor87 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tx.
Posts: 205
Survivor87 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

Hey thanks EVERYONE for all the input and ideas. Once again I have been away from the board for a while due to work. I will be taking all of this into consideration here in the near future. For now I think I will be running the leaded fuel (for the track only, of course) and look into one of those heated sensors or the lead-tolerant ones (TiO2???).

Haven't seen or heard of E85 or E100 ever being available in D/FW, although they do sell 10% during the summer season to help with emissions. I wouldn't be surprised to see it coming soon, though.

The thing I like about the alchohol injection is the fact that you could tune it for that and pretty much leave it alone. Your car could be as strong on the street as it is at the track. I want my GN to be able to keep its proud heritage and reputation intact in case some wiseguy in a Corvette/Mustang/
(fill in the blank with your most hated wannabe fast car) tries to test his stuff aginst mine.
__________________
Steve Allen- '87GN "survivor"
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 03-11-2007, 01:50 PM
tommy231's Avatar
tommy231 tommy231 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 20
tommy231 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

If you follow the link I provided (http://www.e85refueling.com/) you will find at least one E85 pump in Dallas:

Kroger #587
3939 Frankford Rd. @ Midway
Dallas, TX 75287
972-662-1000

I'll bet there are others in the surrounding area.

TiO2 sensors might be hard to find, but there are other so-called lead-tolerant sensors available.

I saw something crazy here in SE Michigan recently that makes no sense to me. 104 unleaded is still $5.50 at the pump, but I saw 110 leaded for $2.49 at a local station. 94 octane unleaded is $2.60. Go figure. Kinda makes it hard to be environmentally conscious.

Last edited by tommy231; 03-11-2007 at 02:11 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 03-11-2007, 02:08 PM
tommy231's Avatar
tommy231 tommy231 is offline
New Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Michigan
Posts: 20
tommy231 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

A statement about E85 in Texas...
http://www.cleanfuelsohio.org/CFO/email_vol13.html
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 03-12-2007, 04:02 PM
Survivor87 Survivor87 is offline
Senior Contributor
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Tx.
Posts: 205
Survivor87 is on a distinguished road
Default Re: High octane fuels: unleaded vs. leaded

Thanks for the links. You certainly seem to be on top of the current fuel trends.

I did finally find some more reasonably priced unleaded nearby (108) and went ahead and bought 10 gallons for the GN. But at $6.50/gallon I won't be doing a lot of street cruising to say the least!
__________________
Steve Allen- '87GN "survivor"
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:25 AM.


This page maintained by: gnttype-webmaster@gnttype.org

The content, images, text and multimedia displayed and contributed by the members of the Grand National and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts Organization are Copyright ©1996-2005. No part, section, image, article or whole of this site may be reposted or redisplayed without permission of the author/contributor and/or the Grand National and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts Organization.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.