some noise and whacky trans fluid level

[Rob86]

I had finished all the spring cleaning, took the car out yesterday for the first drive and after a while I noticed smoke from the rear after accelerating, I pulled over and found it to be trans fluid. I drove home and parked it, I assumed I might have slightly over torqued one of the pan bolts and decided first thing today I would back them all up and re-torque them. I did to 11 ft.lb. I went out for a two mile drive getting on it a little and returned to my garage. I didn't find any leaks and then I checked the fluid level, car running in park. I found the level to be well above the full line... I checked several times turning the stick around also. During spring cleaning when I dropped the pan, I added a drain, changed the filter and gasket and added 5 quarts type F.... I thought that wouldn't have been too much. So I drained a quart, when out for a drive and checked again, same level, well above the full line, so I drained about another quart. Went out for a drive and checked and same thing.... I'm lost. How's that possible?

The other problem is a noise. In park at idle, at initial startup and when I rev it I hear a rattle very similar to a marble in a spray can. It sounds like it is coming from the water pump / turbo area. I listened with a thesescope to alternator, turbo, water pump and they sound fine. I popped the belt, started the car and revved it a quick two times and back off, no noise, so at least I eliminated the turbo.. Any guesses? -Rob

[kenmosher]

Did you take the old O-ring off the filter neck when you installed it? Often times the old one get caught WAAAAY up in the pump pickup and then you jam another one in there with the new filter and you end up with an air leak that can make the fluid levels look whacked.

The smoke was probably fluid puking out of the breathing tube at the top of the trans.

Another thing is ... when you drained and refilled the fluid? Was it just the pan or did you drain the converter too? If it's just the pan, it's usually about 4.5-5.5 quarts. Dry (new/rebuilt trans) is 11 quarts. With a dry converter it can be more.

You should fill it with about 4.5 quarts, then run it through all the gears (stationary) and then top off. Dry it to get it up to temp and then check and fill as necessary again. I always run an extra pint or so to be above the fill line (so it doesn't suck air on a hard launch).

The marble sound was probably the belt tensioner bearing ... they go bad and they rattle around.

[Rob86]

Thank you Ken, yes I did remove the old o ring, definitely needed a little tug to remove.

When I drained the fluid it was just the fluid that was in the pan and the little bit on the filter, so it should have been the 4-5 quarts? Just for the heck of it, and not sure if it means anything, with the engine cold and off the fluid level is still way above full. The one thing I didn't do was run it stationary through the gears, just drive it about 2 miles and then in reverse into my garage.

I should have mentioned that I did just change the tensioner, it was rattling also. It seems when I spin the pulleys by hand the only one that makes some noise is the alternator, but when running it doesn't seem to come from that area.

[pajeff87]

Transmission fluid should always be checked with the fluid warm, the gear selector in "Park", the car parked on a level surface and the engine idling.

[Rob86]

Yes, I was just curious to see if the level would raise as the fluid drained down from the trans or if the level would go down as the fluid cooled. But neither happened, I'm going to try what Ken suggested and run it through the gears when I warm it up.

This is a link for YouTube to that rattling sound, hopefully someone with a trained ear can distinguish it from the normal engine noises. I think I've narrowed it to the water pump or power steering pump. I noticed after letting it sit over night and upon first start up until about a minute later into warming up it was quiet, the hotter the engine got, the more noticeable the rattle.

Rattle: http://youtu.be/PbNSbSb5oDM

Rob

[pajeff87]

Ok on the fluid level check. Relieve the tensioner and slip the belt off the alternator so it is slack and then spin the pumps by hand to see if you can feel anything. I listened to the video twice and although I think I hear what you are referring to, not sure what is causing it.

BTW: Super clean and very nice engine bay!

[Rob86]

Thank you Jeff! In regards to the trans fluid. I finally got that issue resolved, doesn't make sense, but it's fixed. I have a old protein powder jug approximately 5.5" diameter by 6" tall that I filled with trans fluid, maybe about 3 quarts, plus the 2 other quarts I drained. So everything I added when I changed the filter and gasket. Out of what I had out, I put back in 1 and a third quarts and now I'm halfway between add and full.... Maybe I found a GN that produces oil and I'll be rich lol. The only thing I can think I'd when I drained it, one of the valves stayed closed and didn't let the oil drain out from the trans and then when I ran it, it opened.. Not sure if that can actually happen but it's the only thing that can make sense to me.

The more I listen to the noise the more I think it's coming from the water pump, it's also getting worse. So I ordered one and will start at that point.

[Keller]

Before you get the wrenches out, be sure that the crank sensor is not hitting the interrupter ring. Get under the front of the car with it running and focus your attention at the driver's side of the crank.

If not, it might be the water pump or tensioner pulley bearing.

[Rob86]

The tensioner pulley I replaced just a couple days ago. I'm curious, if that sensor was hitting would it still be hitting if I removed the pulley belt? That's an internal part, correct? I'm assuming it should still move without the belt? I was wondering because when I removed the belt, the rattle was gone.

Upon startup of cold engine, the rattle is not present, the hotter it gets, the worse the rattle. Maybe as coolant warms and starts to move around when the thermostat opens the water pump becomes more active?

[kenmosher]

If removing the belt stops the noise, it's gotta be one of the built driven components (alternator, tensioner, water pump, power steering pump, etc.). The crank sensor is fixed and wouldn't be affect by the belt unless it was reacting to the load of the belt on the crank pulley (which means it's wobbling or the crank/bearings are shot ... very unlikely).