GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums
This is a general site search and does not include list archives.

Go Back   GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums > Technical Topics > Transmission / Torque Converter Tech

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 05-14-2009, 08:31 PM
Flatire Flatire is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Flatire is on a distinguished road
Default 200-4R shift problems

i'm visiting from the Buick V8 board.
Just installed a 200-4r into my 69 Skylark

Problem is the way it shifts,
1-2 is ok, when the 2-3 shift happens it also shifts into 4th.

I've adjusted the TV cable normal, tighter and looser, little changed.

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 05-14-2009, 10:21 PM
Flatire Flatire is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Flatire is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 200-4R shift problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatire View Post
i'm visiting from the Buick V8 board.
Just installed a 200-4r into my 69 Skylark

Problem is the way it shifts,
1-2 is ok, when the 2-3 shift happens it also shifts into 4th.

I've adjusted the TV cable normal, tighter and looser, little changed.

Cheers!
Pictures of ID tag
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 7.jpg
Views:	160
Size:	17.8 KB
ID:	1583  Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 8.jpg
Views:	147
Size:	9.6 KB
ID:	1584  
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 05-15-2009, 12:58 AM
Keller's Avatar
Keller Keller is offline
GNTTYPE Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,424
Keller is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb Re: 200-4R shift problems

There are a few variables to play with, and things to check:

- Are the numbers/letters painted on the tag readable? Looks like they might be painted over now.
- Any idea what model Olds this came from?
- And idea what was the rear end ratio of the car it came from?
- What is your rear end ratio?
- How do you intend to activate lockup in the future?
- Are you sure that "4th" is not the sensation of the TCC engaging?
- What motor is this behind?

Tuning the shift points will be partially checking pressures in gears and partially checking governor spring/weight setups. The trans was set up to work with a specific rear end ratio. If yours is greatly different than the one it was originally with, it won't act as it was intended to.

The 3rd+4th shift is a problem. This might be an actual rebuild issue, and not a tuning issue. Unless this is actually the TCC kicking in, etc. If you can wire the TCC to be manually activated/deactivated and verify its activation/deactivation while driving (should only work in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th), that would help with the diagnosis. You should may be able to set up lights to see 3rd and 4th activate. It depends on how this particular 200-4R is configured. They don't all have the same pin config on the side plug.
__________________
Scott Keller - GNTTYPE Founder & Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 05-15-2009, 01:34 AM
Flatire Flatire is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Flatire is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 200-4R shift problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
There are a few variables to play with, and things to check:

- Are the numbers/letters painted on the tag readable? Looks like they might be painted over now.
- Any idea what model Olds this came from?
- And idea what was the rear end ratio of the car it came from?
- What is your rear end ratio?
- How do you intend to activate lockup in the future?
- Are you sure that "4th" is not the sensation of the TCC engaging?
- What motor is this behind?

Tuning the shift points will be partially checking pressures in gears and partially checking governor spring/weight setups. The trans was set up to work with a specific rear end ratio. If yours is greatly different than the one it was originally with, it won't act as it was intended to.

The 3rd+4th shift is a problem. This might be an actual rebuild issue, and not a tuning issue. Unless this is actually the TCC kicking in, etc. If you can wire the TCC to be manually activated/deactivated and verify its activation/deactivation while driving (should only work in 2nd, 3rd, and 4th), that would help with the diagnosis. You should may be able to set up lights to see 3rd and 4th activate. It depends on how this particular 200-4R is configured. They don't all have the same pin config on the side plug.
Thanks for your response...
My cooler lines are slightly crushed, could that affect it that much?

-Tag reads 091-2T82 OM1 821

-i don't know what kind of Olds. it came from.
My car weighs 3700lbs with 3.90 gear.

-i don't have power to the TCC, i'm not sure how i'll set it up.

-Close to stock Buick 350CID.

-You say they are set up different?
-How?
-Bowtie OD told me the governor is only affects the shift points at WOT.

I will put a toggle switch on the TCC and see what happens.
CAN THE CONVERTOR LOCK UP WITH OUT POWER?

I should get a gauge on it and note the pressures.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 05-15-2009, 02:14 AM
Keller's Avatar
Keller Keller is offline
GNTTYPE Founder
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Missouri
Posts: 9,424
Keller is on a distinguished road
Lightbulb Re: 200-4R shift problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatire View Post
My cooler lines are slightly crushed, could that affect it that much?
Auto trannys are all about pressure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatire View Post
-You say they are set up different?
-How?
-Bowtie OD told me the governor is only affects the shift points at WOT.
We discuss this in other posts. And a link to a chart is provided. Every 200-4R has a different valve body, governor, springs etc., and thus a different calibration. They are not all the same. A Cadillac one will shift softer than one meant for a Turbo Regal. It is meant to. It is not always possible to completely change one into the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatire View Post
CAN THE CONVERTOR LOCK UP WITH OUT POWER?
It is switched on by an electric solenoid. What do you think?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flatire View Post
I should get a gauge on it and note the pressures.
There are taps for pressure checking on the trans case. Do not use the cooler circuit.
__________________
Scott Keller - GNTTYPE Founder & Moderator
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 05-15-2009, 03:27 AM
Flatire Flatire is offline
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 6
Flatire is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 200-4R shift problems

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keller View Post
Auto trannys are all about pressure.

We discuss this in other posts. And a link to a chart is provided. Every 200-4R has a different valve body, governor, springs etc., and thus a different calibration. They are not all the same. A Cadillac one will shift softer than one meant for a Turbo Regal. It is meant to. It is not always possible to completely change one into the other.

It is switched on by an electric solenoid. What do you think?

There are taps for pressure checking on the trans case. Do not use the cooler circuit.
I found this post ID-ing 2004r's
the one i have (OM) was from a 350 diesel, don't know what body.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Picture 10.jpg
Views:	162
Size:	19.5 KB
ID:	1585  
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 05-15-2009, 09:41 AM
kenmosher's Avatar
kenmosher kenmosher is offline
Whoosh
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 3,984
kenmosher is on a distinguished road
Default Re: 200-4R shift problems

The TCC solenoid COULD be sticking though ... That might be part of the problem (even without power) if it's in some sort of in between state.

The governor is responsible for the WOT shifts, but the VB calibration can affect a lot of things with pressures (especially in the Throttle Valve circuit) that can cause some real weirdness with shifting at part throttle (premature shifts, "sticking" shifts at WOT, etc.).

I know, not much, help but I went through a stage where we tried an Olds diesel VB on my car and we never did get it to work right.
__________________
Ken Mosher
1987 GN original owner 650+ HP Black
2015 BMW 328xi XDrive wagon
2012 Volkswagen Tiguan (the Tig!) Night Blue Met (sold)
2006 Trailblazer SS Red Jewel Tint 395 HP AWD (sold)
2014 Silverado LTZ Crew 4WD
2012 Honda VFR 1200F Tahitian Blue (sold)
2015 BMW S1000R Racing Red
2013 Honda CBR500R Red (wife's bike)
2014 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Harley Davidson V Rod Anniversary Edition
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:40 PM.


This page maintained by: gnttype-webmaster@gnttype.org

The content, images, text and multimedia displayed and contributed by the members of the Grand National and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts Organization are Copyright ©1996-2005. No part, section, image, article or whole of this site may be reposted or redisplayed without permission of the author/contributor and/or the Grand National and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts Organization.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.