GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums
This is a general site search and does not include list archives.

Go Back   GN and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts (GNTTYPE) Forums > Turbo TRader > Cars WANTED

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 10-09-2014, 01:38 AM
iwantatr iwantatr is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
iwantatr is on a distinguished road
Default in the market

I am going to sell my house within 3 months and am expected to walk away with 30-40k and am looking at buying a grand national or typhoon as well as finally "finishing" my 69 GTO Judge. My first car was a 89 GTA if i can find a turbo GTA I'd consider that as well. I've been reading all I can on here as far as RPO's/VIN to make sure I get the real deal. I've also been reading the recipes and I have a few questions. First off I have no experience with a turbo car but how fast will I be able to go with the stock turbo? The end result is driveability and reliability. My goals are 11's and very streetable. I've noticed that the recipes consist of stock heads/cam that I read. How well do these cars respond to cam/head upgrades? It seems like with fuel system (pump and injectors), tranny (shift kit/cooler), downpipe, and a chip you're already in the mid/low 12's. Is it really that easy? Again with my lack of experience with turbo motors I know a good boost gauge and a waste gate are a MUST. I haven't priced this stuff out yet but I'm thinking thats about $1k. My main concern is at what point I would need to upgrade the turbo and how much is too much? Going fast is fun but I don't want to go boom in the process. Like they say speed costs money how fast do you wanna go but I want to be smart about it and would like to hear any input from those who have been down this road before me.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10-09-2014, 05:03 PM
kenmosher's Avatar
kenmosher kenmosher is offline
Whoosh
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 3,984
kenmosher is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

Quote:
Originally Posted by iwantatr View Post
First off I have no experience with a turbo car but how fast will I be able to go with the stock turbo? The end result is driveability and reliability. My goals are 11's and very streetable.
11s can be done with great tuning, good air, slicks, and race gas at the track on the stock turbo. Personally, the best I could squeeze out of the stock turbo was 12.001 (DOH!) This was before modern injectors and converters, so it's easier now.

Quote:
I've noticed that the recipes consist of stock heads/cam that I read. How well do these cars respond to cam/head upgrades?
It's definitely a COMBINATION thing. The bigger the turbo, the better the intercooler, the better the exhaust, the better the fuel system, the more the heads and cam work when they are upgraded. Otherwise you just move the bottle neck to the turbo/intercooler/fueling ...

Quote:
seems like with fuel system (pump and injectors), tranny (shift kit/cooler), downpipe, and a chip you're already in the mid/low 12's. Is it really that easy?
Yup.

Quote:
Again with my lack of experience with turbo motors I know a good boost gauge and a waste gate are a MUST. I haven't priced this stuff out yet but I'm thinking thats about $1k.
Whoa .. must be platinum plated!

For $2 (really, $2) you can make an adjustable wastage from the stock stuff (article on the site). Boost gauge is $40. If you want to get really fancy you can add an adjustable air pressure regulator in the wastegate circuit and make it controlled from in the cockpit. Another $50 or so.

Quote:
My main concern is at what point I would need to upgrade the turbo and how much is too much?
If your goals are high 11s, I'd do it FIRST... along with good injectors, fuel pump and the other quick and easy bolt ons. You can do that without removing the valve covers and it'll drive stock with a "one step up" turbo ... something like a TA49/TE44 or the newer Garrett GT style turbos. Bigger than that, you need to start matching converter profiles to the compressor curves to maintain drivability.

Turbo (and intercooler) are bolt on items that have a large return for your investment and the "goes boom" factor depends on tuning, combination (you need a fuel system to handle the extra air flow) and how you sort it out. Stock stuff is pretty good down to about 11:50s/115 MPH level ... below there you start to break the next weakest link (U joints, transmission if not upgraded, axles, converters, etc.)
__________________
Ken Mosher
1987 GN original owner 650+ HP Black
2015 BMW 328xi XDrive wagon
2012 Volkswagen Tiguan (the Tig!) Night Blue Met (sold)
2006 Trailblazer SS Red Jewel Tint 395 HP AWD (sold)
2014 Silverado LTZ Crew 4WD
2012 Honda VFR 1200F Tahitian Blue (sold)
2015 BMW S1000R Racing Red
2013 Honda CBR500R Red (wife's bike)
2014 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Harley Davidson V Rod Anniversary Edition
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 10-09-2014, 07:16 PM
iwantatr iwantatr is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
iwantatr is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

I was referring to $1k in all the upgrades I mentioned. Lets say i make enough when the house sells to pick one up and i upgrade the turbo along with the fuel system and add a chip (there will be other mods but I'm just focusing on these to make it short) what worries me is how it will run on the street with normal fuel. This is where I think I will spend the money on a good boost controller so I can turn it down when I'm driving on the street. Or is it more complicated then that? I'm thinking that ill have to control the fuel as well so im not running rich to compensate for lower boost.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 10-10-2014, 10:27 AM
kenmosher's Avatar
kenmosher kenmosher is offline
Whoosh
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 3,984
kenmosher is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

As long as you choose a good combo (and it sounds like you're pretty dialed in), it'll drive pretty much just like stock ... and you can run a street chip (less timing for lower octane gas) and only the "killer" tune for the track with good gas.

Turning the boost up and down can be done with a boost controller or the aforementioned $2 trick.

For your modest goals, a "one step up" turbo (or even better, ball bearing center section turbo), injectors, fuel pump, chip(s), etc. (ala the Recipe) will get you there without drivability concerns. Turbo can be anywhere from $600-1100 depending on what you choose, but I'd say the $1k is a good target number.
__________________
Ken Mosher
1987 GN original owner 650+ HP Black
2015 BMW 328xi XDrive wagon
2012 Volkswagen Tiguan (the Tig!) Night Blue Met (sold)
2006 Trailblazer SS Red Jewel Tint 395 HP AWD (sold)
2014 Silverado LTZ Crew 4WD
2012 Honda VFR 1200F Tahitian Blue (sold)
2015 BMW S1000R Racing Red
2013 Honda CBR500R Red (wife's bike)
2014 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Harley Davidson V Rod Anniversary Edition
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 10-11-2014, 10:04 PM
iwantatr iwantatr is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
iwantatr is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

i think ill be over $1k when i figure in the electronics. I heard a wideband is a must more or less with these and I'd rather have a electronic boost controller so I know what the boost is at. I was more concerned with the pump gas on the street factor but like you said I can just have 2 chips. The electronic boost controller will make it nice to set boost between both. I really have to do my homework on turbos. I also noticed most of the recipes are using the stock intercoolers as well so I assume I'm better off spending the money elsewhere first.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 10-12-2014, 07:25 PM
kenmosher's Avatar
kenmosher kenmosher is offline
Whoosh
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 3,984
kenmosher is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

A wideband is a good tuning tool ... that said, before those were affordable, many of us went pretty quick without them and just common sense (and mechanical boost control and a good gauge).

If you look closely at the Recipes, most upgrade to at least a good stock LOCATION intercooler upgrade somewhere in the 11s. (The Recipe was written by me documenting my build through the years).

It's all combination ... not individual parts. They need to match your intended target...
__________________
Ken Mosher
1987 GN original owner 650+ HP Black
2015 BMW 328xi XDrive wagon
2012 Volkswagen Tiguan (the Tig!) Night Blue Met (sold)
2006 Trailblazer SS Red Jewel Tint 395 HP AWD (sold)
2014 Silverado LTZ Crew 4WD
2012 Honda VFR 1200F Tahitian Blue (sold)
2015 BMW S1000R Racing Red
2013 Honda CBR500R Red (wife's bike)
2014 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Harley Davidson V Rod Anniversary Edition
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 10-12-2014, 08:12 PM
iwantatr iwantatr is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
iwantatr is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

I was just prioritizing what was needed (assuming that the car has a good tune up and is running normal) in my opinion I want to concentrate on "tuning" tools then fuel,exhaust,traction,boost. I started to look around at the aftermarket parts last night and the cost started going way up. it seems like anything major for these cars are $800-1K. Thats starting to scare me. I was expecting to put less into it. I still have to do my homework on turbos and at least get a better knowledge of them but it looks like you said $800-$1600 on those, $800-$1k on a intercooler, $500 for a downpipe and another $500 for exhaust, between a fuel pump,injectors, and a regulator theres another $500, didn't look at tires yet but id bet those are about $500 as well.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 10-12-2014, 08:24 PM
kenmosher's Avatar
kenmosher kenmosher is offline
Whoosh
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: CO
Posts: 3,984
kenmosher is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

I agree with what you're basically saying but let's put it in context ... you can spend a lot of money, if you choose ... BUT you don't have to if you can pick a combination that does what you want it to without a bunch of expensive "nice to have" parts.

For example ... stock intercooler, stock turbo, slicks, manual boost control and either a dump tube or good exhaust and you're at high 11s/12s on race gas. So, the expense is mainly tires, exhaust (and if you do a dump tube, that's pretty cheap), chip(s) GOOD fuel pump, and crank the boost up with a race chip.

Now if you want to do it more elegantly, you can start achieving those results with less effort if you do things like make the exhaust more efficient (i.e. downpipe) or the intercooler more efficient (less pressure drop and more thermal mass to avoid heat soak), or the turbo more efficient (step up models, get the Precision housing, etc.), more fuel flow (injectors) and so on. You spend more money BUT in turn you get more reliability, easier results without having to max out things and you have more "headroom" for those days when the track isn't biting or the air isn't as good or you don't have the best gas or whatever. It's never a bad idea to overbuild slightly and turn the "knob" down a bit to "9" (instead of having to run it at "10" all the the time).

Comes down to what you are comfortable with and what your goals are realistically.
__________________
Ken Mosher
1987 GN original owner 650+ HP Black
2015 BMW 328xi XDrive wagon
2012 Volkswagen Tiguan (the Tig!) Night Blue Met (sold)
2006 Trailblazer SS Red Jewel Tint 395 HP AWD (sold)
2014 Silverado LTZ Crew 4WD
2012 Honda VFR 1200F Tahitian Blue (sold)
2015 BMW S1000R Racing Red
2013 Honda CBR500R Red (wife's bike)
2014 Triumph Bonneville T100
2003 Harley Davidson V Rod Anniversary Edition
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 10-13-2014, 07:12 PM
iwantatr iwantatr is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 6
iwantatr is on a distinguished road
Default Re: in the market

that makes me feel a lot better I was under the impression I could get in the low 12's high 11's for $2500. Then I started shopping last night and seen the numbers and wasn't so sure. Can't wait for the house to sell.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:33 PM.


This page maintained by: gnttype-webmaster@gnttype.org

The content, images, text and multimedia displayed and contributed by the members of the Grand National and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts Organization are Copyright ©1996-2005. No part, section, image, article or whole of this site may be reposted or redisplayed without permission of the author/contributor and/or the Grand National and T-Type Performance Enthusiasts Organization.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.3
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.