Researching 231cid engines

[Lingam]

All,

I am a 1980 monte carlo owner. I came here because, As most of you know, the Monte carlo's turbo engine was the 231 turbo from Buick. And I wanted to replicate the 1987 GNX performance in my car, I am hoping that some here might guide me on this part of my project. I was interested in fellow V6 lovers input on the engine and transmission as well as the gearing in the rearend.

Thanks

Jason

[Keller]

Your motor predates the GN/GNX by the better part if a decade. Several changes were made to the block in that time. Plus, you don't have any of the plumbing or hardware that comprise the turbo cars. However, you do have the correct crank if you have a turbo 231 in yours.

http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html

And we haven't even touched on the transmission or rear end. (both different than yours) Not to mention, if you want to get GNX specific, the rear suspension would be different as well.

http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~rowilson/frtpge.html

Bottom line: It is a lot cheaper and easier to start with a turbo Buick to begin with than to try to get to the final product by engineering your own. Your car is fairly rare. Why not enjoy what you have and plan for the future with a FI turbo Regal.

There is also a reciples for the carbed turbo Buicks. See http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/carb.html

[Lingam]

Originally Posted by Keller

Your motor predates the GN/GNX by the better part if a decade. Several changes were made to the block in that time. Plus, you don't have any of the plumbing or hardware that comprise the turbo cars. However, you do have the correct crank if you have a turbo 231 in yours.

http://www.gnttype.org/general/v6hist.html

And we haven't even touched on the transmission or rear end. (both different than yours) Not to mention, if you want to get GNX specific, the rear suspension would be different as well.

http://my.ohio.voyager.net/~rowilson/frtpge.html

Bottom line: It is a lot cheaper and easier to start with a turbo Buick to begin with than to try to get to the final product by engineering your own. Your car is fairly rare. Why not enjoy what you have and plan for the future with a FI turbo Regal.

There is also a reciples for the carbed turbo Buicks. See http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/recipes/carb.html

Actually, I am not starting with my engine at all. It is a 229 chevy engine. I am planning to put a turbo V6 in the car. So I can put any engine in I like. So in essence I can start with a Buick engine and transmission. So I will not be updating my power plant, I will be replacing it. Maybe that clears up some of the confusion. Any suggestions with this further clarification?

Jason

[Keller]

See my "Bottom line". You're essentially starting with a body and no parts.

Yes, you need an engine and transmission. And a rear end, because yours isn't strong enough. And a driveshaft. And all the fuel injection, ignition, wiring, and plumbing you don't have. And your wiring harness is not set up for this. So you basically starting with *zero*. If you were going to build a 9 second (or faster) race car, where everything was not going to be stock and money was of no concern, it might make sense. Otherwise, it is much smarter to either (1) buy a TR or (2) buy a totalled TR and move the driveline/wiring/plumbing over to your car.

If you want a fairly docile driver and weekend racer, starting with a TR to begin with, or starting with a wreck and working with it as a project would make much more sense. Otherwise, I hope you have a lot of cash, a lot of time, and are very driven. Its not impossible, by any means. You need to set your boundaries, however.

[turbobuicksix]

Another option would be the 4.3 turbo Chevy v6 used in syclones and typhoons, but the cost would be about the same.But it is a Chevy motor so it might be a nicer compliment to your Monte.Either way you would need a donor vehicle.

[Lingam]

Originally Posted by Keller

See my "Bottom line". You're essentially starting with a body and no parts.

Yes, you need an engine and transmission. And a rear end, because yours isn't strong enough. And a driveshaft. And all the fuel injection, ignition, wiring, and plumbing you don't have. And your wiring harness is not set up for this. So you basically starting with *zero*. If you were going to build a 9 second (or faster) race car, where everything was not going to be stock and money was of no concern, it might make sense. Otherwise, it is much smarter to either (1) buy a TR or (2) buy a totalled TR and move the driveline/wiring/plumbing over to your car.

If you want a fairly docile driver and weekend racer, starting with a TR to begin with, or starting with a wreck and working with it as a project would make much more sense. Otherwise, I hope you have a lot of cash, a lot of time, and are very driven. Its not impossible, by any means. You need to set your boundaries, however.

I appreciate your concern for my time and money. I am aware that I will need an engine, transmission, rear end and the other things that go into moving over the performance from a GNX to my car. I am aware that this project will take time and money. I have about 300 man hours in the body work alone on my car, so I don't think I will drop this project to pick up another.

Now if I need to start with a doner car, that is fine. Otherwise I was interested in where you could buy a rebuilt short block and what is the desired transmission to run with the 231 turbo, 700-r4 200-4r or other?

Thank you again for your time

Jason

[Lingam]

Originally Posted by turbobuicksix

Another option would be the 4.3 turbo Chevy v6 used in syclones and typhoons, but the cost would be about the same.But it is a Chevy motor so it might be a nicer compliment to your Monte.Either way you would need a donor vehicle.

Well Buick built the 231 for the Monte Carlos any way so in reality the 231 makes more sense than the 4.3L

Jason

[Keller]

There was a short block for sale in this forum (see the "TRader" area) recently. You can actually use a NA block, just drill and tap the turbo drain hole in it. However, the correct "109" one. See the reference I posted. You'd be just as well off to build your own, or better off to go with a knowledgeable source. (i.e. www.groomsengines.com , www.4wre.com , etc.)

Enginewise, the GNX and TR differ only by the turbo and intercooler. Difference is minor.

For the transmission, the 200-4R is the way to go, and a TR specific unit (proper valve body, etc.) is de rigeur. Let's keep further chat about that in the tranny section, please.

As for the Chevy idea...we don't speak Chevy here. Please keep the chat all Buick-power specific, no matter what its going in.

[Lingam]

Originally Posted by Keller

There was a short block for sale in this forum (see the "TRader" area) recently. You can actually use a NA block, just drill and tap the turbo drain hole in it. However, the correct "109" one. See the reference I posted. You'd be just as well off to build your own, or better off to go with a knowledgeable source. (i.e. www.groomsengines.com , www.4wre.com , etc.)

Enginewise, the GNX and TR differ only by the turbo and intercooler. Difference is minor.

For the transmission, the 200-4R is the way to go, and a TR specific unit (proper valve body, etc.) is de rigeur. Let's keep further chat about that in the tranny section, please.

As for the Chevy idea...we don't speak Chevy here. Please keep the chat all Buick-power specific, no matter what its going in.

Not to be argumentive but GM owns both product lines, they are generally built at the same plants, on the same lines, and most of the time have almost identical parts. Especially the Regals and the Monte Carlos. Its not like we are suggesting putting the power plant into a Ford, or Chysler.

Jason

[Keller]

My comment was for the suggestion of the 4.3 Chevy V6. We will not entertain that discussion here. I don't care if it's GM, or not. That has been the GNTTYPE rules from day one. Not Buick, not discussed.

Put a Buick motor in whatever you want, and we'll talk about it: AMC to Zastava